Interview: New Dean, Duke University Chapel in North Carolina speaks about his plans: Luke Powery, a Reverend Doctor is the man

It is almost trite to say Christians enjoy a good sermon. But those who go to worship at Duke University Chapel have the pleasure and good fortune of having strong preachers with a Christian message. The new Dean of the Chapel is in this line of quality preachers, and his administrative skills are not only sound, but up to the task as the months that have passed from his entry in 2012 to this 2013 demonstrate. This Religion Writer has heard of no complaint.

This big job in what is really a large building serves the larger community around the school as well as the University. The new Dean Luke Powery is part of that line of pastors serving both communities. The interview with him done by phone, starting October, 2012 and stretching to this day in April, 2013, tells us much of his ability to pastor and his plans for the Chapel. These segments of conversation in interview were done with Dean Powery from this Religion Writer’s home office in Mill Valley, California, but 11 miles north of San Francisco, to the Dean at his office in the Chapel located in Durham, North Carolina.

One thing noted by the American Press in general of the new Dean Luke Powery is that he is an African-American. Apparently such public information still merits notice, and this is good for he is the first African-American Dean at the University. Times change. There is an African-American in charge who was chosen for his fine work as a Pastor, his administrative skills, and because of his ability to give a Sunday sermon or not.

Not only is his language contemporary in his sermons, sometimes enriching, but his very presence as Dean contemporary as a statement of the times. This Religion Writer thought his background and that he is an African-American brought not only a uniqueness to his importance, but more so, his brilliant grasp of affairs and his meaningful sermons so unique in some ways, yet contemporary and traditional in matters of substance and ways.

Interview: Christian poet Philip Kolin of Mississippi, USA lives his faith, telling readers here of his work–everything you ever wanted to know

For some time I have thought about and even meditated on the work of poetry recent to the body of this interview series, as created by the excellent Roman Catholic Christian poet Philip Kolin, of Mississippi, USA. His recent collection is titled Reading God’s Handwriting: Poems as published by Kaufmann Publishing. That pretty little small house owned by the lovely and charming woman Leslie Kaufmann is located in St. Simons Island, Georgia. A short interview with her is included in the Addendum to this interview with the poet Philip Kolin. Note the work is appealing to Roman Catholics, but as well to others of the Christian faith, including Protestants and what I am going to call evangelicals and those in their independent suite where they are non-affiliated with a denomination. This is referred to as, “Called.” I mention this non-affiliated group of Christians because it seems by observation through the seat of this Religion Writer’s pants that they’re a larger and more growing group than thought previously here in the United States. No hard data to support this anecdotal measurement, but I think it lets the reader know that Philip C. Kolin, though markedly Roman Catholic with an intelligent and perceived educated view of faith in Christ, appeals to a wide swath. So be it. For is that not one criterion for meeting this collection of ongoing interviews with American Christian poets? Hence his appearance in this group that is now more than four years of interviews in the making. A book as a collection of the interviews is scheduled for 2013 with the working title, Interviews with American Christian Poets by Peter Menkin.

This interview was begun by phone in February, 2013 and through a series of mishaps and mostly miseries delayed in its posting, despite the fact that poet Kolin, an esteemed professor at the University of Southern Mississippi in this writer’s estimation, was available. Philip Kolin bore these events in a spirit of full cooperation.

His official title is University Distinguished Professor in the College of Arts and Letters, The University of Southern Mississippi. The University of Southern Mississippi is not to be confused with Ole Miss, please.

Poet Kolin wrote out responses to the questions in a timely manner. Public apology is due for the unforeseen delay in finishing this work, and thanks for a job particularly done with care in his usual meticulous and intellectual manner. Philip Kolin’s answers, so I have learned about the poet and his habits, in fact his way of working, have a studied way in discipline and refinement. This is a noteworthy trait of years of work in the area of scholarship and editing as well as of poetry. Keep in mind that the poet is well known, even famous, for scholarly writings. But as you’ll see, poet he most certainly is—thanks be to God.

The following comments about Reading God’s Handwriting come from Abbot Cletus of St. Bernard Monastery in Cullman, Alabama. It was sent to this Religion Writer by Kaufmann Publishing and is a complete statement, though also appears on the back cover of the book in truncated version—a work of poetry published 2012:

In his new volume Reading God s Handwriting Philip Kolin has once again heard the whisper of God’s word with the ear of his heart and given poetic expression to the timeless value of that word. His writing reflects a sense of reverence that seeks to distill the Divine Word of God and assimilate it into his very being. In the monastic tradition this process is called lectio divina. Such words take up their dwelling and have meaning only in the repetitive process of a hearing that leads to a listening, a pondering, and then, after assimilation, is given expression in the life and activity of the individual. As if praying, Philip has taken it one step farther and given expression in poetic words of profound insight and readability. One who has familiarity with the Bible, the Word of God, will read his poems with delight and will relish the sense of oneness between the writer and the word he has written. His poems offer a treasure of insight and could easily be used as a resource for personal prayer and lectio.

Interview: Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld, an American in Jerusalem talks of teaching for www.Torah.org

In this interview the writer hopes to elicit from Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld, teacher of matters Orthodox Jewish much about the internet teaching website and organization www.torah.org . Through this interview, the final in a three part series on Religious Education, we begin a three part number of interviews with different Orthodox Rabbi’s who teach and write for that website. Each has a slightly different perspective of religious education and what they teach. More, it is their subject that is the primary object of their difference. But all three are Orthodox, and all three are Rabbis—all three are both writer and teacher. So without much ado more, here is the first of the interviews in this final of the three part series on Religious Education. The first two in the series had as subject a Southern Baptist, and an Episcopalian from the USA.

INTERVIEW WITH RABBI DOVID ROSENFELD

1.1. Question by Peter Menkin: As a writer and teacher at Torah.org you receive a lot of inquiries, questions and answers from your many students. What of your subjects covered have proved to receive the more thoughtful answers from students. Will you share one or two of those answers and also tell us something of your students in general? About students you have in a month or a year, you’ve said, “Counts grow slowly but steadily – more a function of how long-standing a class is. Pirkei Avos (started in late 1998) has over 11,000 students. Maimonides (begun 2008) has >4500.” Talk to us about the attraction of “Pirkei Avos” and its subject.

I’ll mention first of all that a big fraction of the correspondence I receive is not all that relevant to the material I teach. Some people just write to say thank you. Others come with their own issues and problems. I suppose they turn to me because they have no one else in their lives they feel can advise them, and they feel based on my writings that I would be an appropriate person. Lastly, a few correspond regularly with me and we develop a relationship – and there too our correspondence doesn’t necessarily have much to do with my classes.

Of the relevant questions and comments I receive – perhaps averaging one every other class, it’s of course hard to generalize with such a large audience. My students can range from non-Jewish, totally uninitiated, to advanced Talmudists. I guess as a rule the beginners do not feel equipped to challenge me. The questions more generally come from my most advanced readers. One general observation I would say is that the material itself generally does not put my readers off. Strongly moralistic or not politically correct statements – say such subjects as the Jewish view on the separation of the sexes or the specialness of the Children of Israel – do not seem to elicit much flack. Look, for the most part my readers are coming seeking spirituality. They want guidance and absolutes, not wishy-washy politically-correct sweet nothings.

More often it’s not the actual material I teach but my passing comments that generate the flack – sometimes a careless wisecrack, at times disparaging remarks about Christianity or less-religious denominations of Judaism. (Criticisms of Islam have never elicited negative reactions.) As a writer, I’m actually often surprised how my readers pick up on the careless side comments which I hardly paid attention to myself. Over the years I’ve learned to become attuned to and avoid the types of remarks which folks object to.

In terms of the course material I teach, one aspect which I find enormously refreshing is the fact that I teach classic material in its original. (Pirkei Avos is a section of the Mishna, which was put into final form in the 3rd century C.E.; Maimonides lived and authored his works in the 12th century.) The students see the writings of great scholars in their original (translated from the Hebrew as accurately as I can – although important nuances will always be lost). They are not reading some modern doctored up writings – the world according to Dovid Rosenfeld. They can view and see the wisdom of the words of the Sages themselves. There is nothing to hide or to whitewash. Their words are timeless, as relevant today as they were when they were written.

There are a few types of responses. First of all, I get a steady stream of feedback. There are questions that are not relevant or all. A good part of the correspondence is not relevant at all. People come to me because they are familiar with my writing and so come to me. There are questions and comments on my writing. People who are not as learned will swallow anything. Everything sounds fine to them. People who are beginners accept anything. The more learned not. To the other issue, the types of things that generate comment. Things which receive a lot of comment are things that are not politically correct: men and women, things between the sexes, when I speak about Christianity—I guess an example that doesn’t usually get negative feedback is the Middle East and politics. Usually people…generally are not bothered by the material I write. For the most part I find it is a very receptive argument. Usually they are interested in Religion and spirituality. They are not opposed to my talking about things Jewish or about Israel, and things.

Interview: Brother Zane Young tells us about an American Franciscan Order

This is neither advertisement nor opinion piece, but a report on Episcopal Franciscans who as Friars may be married as well as single…married man to man, or man to woman.

INTERVIEW WITH BROTHER ZANE YOUNG

1. I have for a long time liked and admired the Franciscan Order, so when I learned that my friend Brother Rich had become a full Brother of the Franciscans, no longer a Third Order Member, I became curious. I became curious because Brother Rich is married. I thought monastics–as Franciscan Brothers are considered–were unmarried. In our phone conversation made to you in Washington State from my home office in Mill Valley, California (north of San Francisco), you said your Order started in 2005, allowed married brothers. Please tell us about this new phenomenon in monasticism, and a little about how men may partner with men, or marry, and that married men with spouses who-are-female may also become married. Do you find this unusual, and why this “new” monastic value?

I don’t find it unusual in the fact that we do it. It is probably unusual because it has not been done by the Church in Franciscan orders. Basically, the Franciscan tradition we have today in the Church is here from the Catholics, handed down from the Anglo-Catholic tradition. When it came from the Anglican, especially the Episcopalians in this country. Since we are Anglicans, we had to be a little different because of the war [American war of Revolution from the British]. The tradition of Franciscan friars and fathers came down from England and Scotland. It came down from SSF (Society of Saint Francis); it came down from the Catholic Church: their friars, they are celibate.

2. Speak with us a little about the Franciscan work in the world, what the brothers in your order are doing with people, and something of where they live and practice their Episcopal faith. Are they all Episcopalians, and is everyone who is engaged with the running of your Franciscan order and its membership Episcopalian?

Yes. All of guys right now are Episcopalian. One is Anglican and he is living in England. We are open to anyone in the community: Lutheran, Australian, etc. as long as they are in Communion with the See of Canterbury. That’s another caveat that makes us a little bit different from the SSF (Society of Saint Francis), and even the Third Order.

We have one brother in particular who ministers to military families who are in crisis. [The brother ministers to]…military men who are returning from Afghanistan or other areas of war… or military installations in ongoing situations of conflict. The brother counsels military personnel themselves and their families. This includes post-traumatic stress. Brother Rich is involved with the St. Vincent de Paul Society in San Francisco’s Marin County. Other brothers are involved with homeless shelters. Myself, I used to work with battered women in their shelters.

[Franciscan theology] I think that the theology comes from ministry to the poor, the disadvantaged and those [who are] lesser in society. Where it seems to manifest itself today are people who are in a crisis. It seems to come from–this poverty sense– that was Francis’ plan to [be an] Order of the poor, the sick–that’s what Francis would do. We approach our vow of poverty to cast off our clothes as Francis did. We try to live simply, within our means, and give within our means to others. We provide for our families and our churches, and we give to those who depend on us. Poverty is a tricky word. We’ve had guys in the Order who have trouble struggling with that word. The word itself is important, for it takes us back to the vows of Francis. How we live and understand that word poverty is how we live that question.

3. I’d like to hear something of what is special about this 2012 for you and the Franciscans of your Order: practice and spirituality. If it is as observance and practice similar to that of other Christians, speak to us about some of the practices of the brothers, including some examples of specific and personable, not personal-private, practices of members of the Order or even you as Provincial Minister.

In private practice, it doesn’t change, that is they are required to do the Daily Offices. Most of these guys have been doing the Daily Offices for years. We all follow those Offices as stated in the Book of Common Prayer. Several will use different sources for these things. We like to use new technologies. We utilize the web site for Mission St. Clare. There are a lot of different websites. In Lent I will use the COE (Church of England), use the Prayer Book of 1612.

It doesn’t really matter the source. I want them to be invigorated by the word and not be buried by it.

We are one entity; I am not a Provincial Minister. I’m a Minister General. There is one, just us. We try to keep our structure very simple, to the point, and only to what we need considering administrative structure. Pretty much, we’re governed by the Rule and by the Vow. They are very simple in structure as well. We took the rule and vow from Francis. We also operate under a democratic form. If the professed bring up something, we listen to it and we can make decisions that way.

When it comes to matters of operation, discipline and induction, I have the final decision—it lies with me.

We don’t have a Friary. If you go back in history, our brothers feel we actually live closer to the rule of 1223. Francis wanted them out of the monastery. He didn’t want them hidden in a box. He wanted them out in the world. Brothers living communally, 3 or 4 max—two or three living together was fine. But not as an ongoing presence. We’re new in that we harken back to something old. We are new in that we allowed people to be married, to be fathers. To be partnered, to have multiple vocations. We don’t mind if they are married, divorced, partnered. We don’t stand in their way. Their marital status or sexual status is not a criterion for why we think they are a brother. Unfortunately, with the SSF that is not the case. You must be single. Otherwise you can’t be in their Order.

Interview: Robert Siegel, poet of Maine USA speaks with the writer on his work–another in the ongoing series of conversations with Anglican and Christian poets

This writer says as note, I have been thinking about how to make the Eucharist a Christmas 2011 statement, and also to introduce the article-interview with Maine poet Robert H. Siegel about his work which is a gift. [Certainly, Christ's birth is a gift to mankind—as is the Eucharist. In a manner, so is the gift of poetry a kind of birth in the poet’s life, as the poem does take on a life of its own after its “birth.” A poem requires nurture.]

The interview with Robert Siegel was conducted by email, and questions were answered in writing by the poet.

The following quote displays his poem about finches, and was one inspiration for the title of his book, “A Pentecost of Finches: New & Selected Poems…” It is from the Houghton College interview conducted by John Leax and noted as partial reprint later in this article.

Matins

By Robert Siegel

It is morning. A finch startles
the maple leaves. Everything’s clear
in this first light before all thins
to a locust harping on the heat.

While day clutches at my pulse
to inject the usual anesthetic,
now, Christ, stimulate my heart,
transfuse your blood to fortify my own.

Let no light upon these sheets
diminish, Lord, before I feel you
burst inward like a finch
to nest and sing within this tree of bones.

INTRODUCTION

For my way of thinking, the work of a poet is the result of a gift. This is especially true of Robert Siegel of Maine, USA; he is a man with a gift. He is also a man who writes poetry that reflects his faith while writing about God’s creatures in a way that a naturalist can love.

This article-interview on Robert Siegel is another in the ongoing series of interviews with Anglican and Christian poets. The poet wrote in an email:

You asked about a person, or persons, who know my work. On my website (robert-siegel.com ) I’ve included six complete reviews of my last two books of poetry. You might want to look at Paul Willis’ review in Christianity and Literature, as he touches on the relationship of poetry to faith and the spiritual. So does Thomas Bontly in The Sewanee Review. Robert French in The North Dakota Quarterly comments on my animal poems, which I consider my most characteristic, and (it seems to me) gets at what I’m trying to do in these and others.

I was raised Presbyterian but I have been an Anglican for 49 years this November, having been inspired to change by C.S. Lewis (and by my lovely wife, who preceded me into the fold).

Robert

POET PAUL WILLIS’ REVIEW, IN PART

Here is part of one review of Robert Siegel’s book, “A Pentecost of Finches: New & Selected poems,” Paraclete Press (Brewster, Massachusetts) from his website.

Professor of English at Westmont College, Santa Barbara, Paul Willis wrote:

Sometimes Siegel ventures into the realm of specifically biblical creatures, to fine effect.

In “A Colt, the Foal of an Ass” from the selected portion, the beast of burden reflects on “this moment of bearing the man, /​ a weight that is light and easy” (118). “The Serpent Speaks” which concludes the first part of the new poems, is perhaps the greatest achievement of the collection. This long, sinuous monologue tempts us all over again—”I am another vine”—even as it rehearses the infection of all of history and the inevitable diminishment of the diabolical speaker (28). And yet the serpent is always a serpent, slithering side by side with the other natural snakes in this volume, all exquisitely observed.

To continue with a long quotation from the review written 2009, and appearing on the poet’s web page here, the review goes on in detail:

… I want to hasten to point out other glories of this collection. Prominent among them are the portraits of New Testament characters that comprise the second part of the new poems. These rough sonnets crystallize the inner lives of a whole array of individuals. Take, for example, “Perfection,” on Mary Magdalene, whose flask of perfume has been brought from Egypt by a Roman general and given to her with the command, ‘”Never age…. /​ Stay perfect. This will help”‘ (37). Or “Judas” who confides to us, “All along I was the only one who seemed to know /​ what the Man could do if he put his mind to it” (41). Or “The Epicure” who enjoys

… a pleasant life: at night the temple girls,
occasionally, after lunch, the flute-playing boy.
A moderate life: poetry for the heart and prose
to temper the mind, though I found less and less joy
in it….

Then, one day, happening to hear in the agora “one speak of a strange god,” suddenly he “heard Pythagoras’ /​/​ golden spheres turn for a second” (46).

It is the turning of these golden spheres that points to Siegel’s abilities and aspirations as a poet. His way of seeing is not merely sacramental but ultimately mystical. In “Annunciation,” he marks the coming of Gabriel in the most homely and heavenly of ways:

Things grew brighter, more distinct, themselves,
in a way beyond explaining. This was her home,
yet somehow things grew more homelike. Jars on the shelves
gleamed sharply: tomatoes, peaches, even the crumbs
on the table grew heavy with meaning and a sure repose
as if they were forever. (34)

Likewise, in “Patmos,” Siegel records the vision of John, “now in the blaze of noon and when the stars sang to his eyes” (47).

This anagogic impulse is sustained in poems throughout the volume. Part three of the new poems begins with the shaped stanzas of “Peonies”: “we see in them absolute /​ fire at the center, stasis /​ of star’s core…” (51). They are as “Dante saw the stars in a glass, /​ a corolla of souls, /​ each reflecting /​ the other’s light /​ and charity…” (51-52). Not surprisingly, another poem in this section is titled “Traherne,” a tribute to and imitation of that supremely mystical seventeenth-century English poet. Siegel glosses him when he writes, “The smallest grain of wheat would light the ground…” (60). The very last poem in the volume, “Voice of Many Waters,” with an epigraph from Revelation and a dedication to Clyde Kilby, is reminiscent of Traherne as well. First to last, in poems that span perhaps forty years, Siegel has stayed wondrously true to this vision.

INTERVIEW BY EMAIL WITH JOHN LEAX RE ROBERT SIEGEL

John Leax: I was a student of Clyde Kilby at Wheaton in the early sixties. I believe he first told me about Robert Siegel, holding him up as something of a model for me, one of the times we talked about my ambition to be a poet. Bob, with his degree from the Hopkins Writing Seminars and PhD from Harvard, I agreed was worth emulating, but I couldn’t imagine myself following that path. I was too much an indifferent student to achieve on that level.

About ten years later, after I’d gone to the Hopkins Writing Seminars (but not Harvard or any other PhD) and had begun teaching I finally met Bob at a conference on teaching creative writing sponsored by the Library of Congress. I believe Mel Lorentzen, a former teacher of both of us from Wheaton, introduced us. Bob, who was sitting with Richard Eberhart, was very polite. I was a bit in awe, somewhat tongue-tied, and awkward. What contact we had following that conference I can’t remember.

In 1980 or early 1981 I invited Bob to visit Houghton where I was teaching. I think our friendship really began then. I was editing a small magazine then and interviewed Bob for it. (I’ll arrange to have it scanned and emailed to you tomorrow.) A couple years later when the group of writers that would become the Chrysostom society met at New Harmony, I was included at Bob’s invitation. (He had written an introduction to my first book of prose that had just appeared.) Our friendship, encouraged by yearly visits and the shared concerns of thesociety, grew from that time. I may have been on the board at the same time as Bob, I can’t remember.

For the last ten years, we have been working together with Jeane Murray Walker on a collaborative poem on the seven deadly sins. The idea for this came from Bob and was worked on while hiking along the gorge in Letchworth State Park. This work has overflowed the boundary of the literary project and infiltrated my life. If I was in awe when I first met Bob, I am now deeply humbled by his craft, learning, wisdom, and generosity. In a strange way, largely because of my personality, our friendship while warm remains a bit formal. I still regard Bob with a bit of awe and can’t imagine imposing myself on him. (I know his character is such that he would find that sentence impossible.)

One thing that should be added: If one walks into a room filled with laughter at the Chrysostom Society, most likely Bob Siegel and Richard Foster are at the center of it. Somewhere in the archives is a collection of “roasting” limericks exchanged between them and others (often Luci Shaw) over dinner.

Jack

——————————————————————————–

INTERVIEW WITH MAINE POET ROBERT SIEGEL

Peter Menkin: Take us down the road a little on the journey of the poet. By this I mean, what is it that the ear is tuned to, and the eye wanting to see, and the heart moved by when it comes to the life of a poet and the work of poetry in one’s life.

Robert Siegel: Even before I could read I enjoyed the sound, rhythm, and texture of words in nursery rhymes like the following:

Rings on her fingers and bells on her toes
She shall have music wherever she goes.

Later I played with words on signs and billboards while riding in a car. Gulf Gas spelled backwards created the abysmal monster Flug Sag, and Standard Oil became Dradnats Lio a mythical half dragon and half lion. I wrote occasional rhymes As a sophomore in high school Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar inspired a somber sixteen-line poem called “Anthony’s Revenge” that began ,“My grief it knows no fathom, my wrath it knows no end,” It impressed my teacher, but chiefly I wrote poems as an adolescent to impress and woo the girl who is now my wife of 50 years.

In my college freshman comp. course I wrote a love lyric that came out of nowhere one lunch hour. The professor liked it well enough to read to the class and suggested I enter it in a contest. After that I was hooked. I took a couple of creative writing courses and every literature course I could find, and in my junior year started gathering weekly to workshop poems with other students, some of us bringing in three or four poems every week. We called it the Poets’ Corner, after that corner of Westminster Abbey.

During that time there was a definite moment when I felt called to a life as a poet. It happened in the fall of my senior year. I was in the Morton Arboretum looking at a spectacular array of fall foliage, when I rounded a corner and stopped in awe of a brilliant red tree—a crabapple, perhaps, or a Japanese maple. As I looked at its intensely red leaves they mesmerized me, as if they were on fire. And yet they were still, as if I ‘d stepped out of time. In that moment the thought came to me: “So this is Beauty and I am called to reveal it to the world.” It was very distinct, and after that I knew clearly what my poetry was for. It had the force of a religious vocation.

After that it was inevitable I’d apply to the Writing Seminars at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore. After taking the master’s degree, and a year’s teaching in Chicago, I enrolled in Harvard’s graduate school—partly because the poet Robert Lowell was there. I had read his early poetry, such as his elegy, The Quaker Graveyard in Nantucket. Lowell was a great inspiration and I worked with him my four years there, His approval confirmed my vocation. Early in my first term there I went to his office hours with nine poems I had written that fall. I found him alone, and had an hour and a half with him before another student showed up. I handed him one poem after another. After reading a few he said to me. “Other people have played this trick of handing me one poem to read and then another and another, but this is the first time I’ve looked forward to the next.” Obviously these words burned themselves into my brain, along with other very encouraging comments. Each fall from 1963 to 67 I attended his morning office hours, which by the second year had turned into an informal seminar. He urged me to send out poems and liked particularly my poem “Hanscom Air Field” so well he carried it to Robert Manning, the editor of the Atlantic Monthly, where it appeared in June of ‘67. Later he recommended to the publisher my first book, The Beasts & the Elders..

Peter Menkin: You have also been a teacher for many years. Some schools where you taught are these: Siegel has taught at Dartmouth, Princeton, and Goethe University in Frankfurt, and for twenty-three years at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, where he directed the graduate creative writing program and is currently professor emeritus of English. He has degrees from Wheaton, Johns Hopkins, and Harvard. He is married to Ann Hill Siegel, a photographer, and lives on the coast of Maine. So your website tells its readers. Is there a similarity to the work of teacher to that of poet? Or more, does being a teacher feed your poetry, and sense of the poetic?

Robert Siegel: I feel very privileged to have taught. Not only did teaching provide the time for writing, but it meant that I was always working with literature and with students who were learning to write poetry or fiction.. It was wonderful to have the chance to teach Paradise Lost, King Lear, and Heart of Darkness to Dartmouth freshmen, Coleridge to seniors, and, later, Yeats to graduate students.

We were particularly fortunate at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee to have a large graduate program in creative writing with students in their twenties to mid-seventies. Not only did this mean we had mature students, but also ones with some life experience to write about. I had one lady in her seventies who had survived Hitler’s camps—though much of her family didn’t—and ultimately published two books of poetry about it.

I think writing and teaching draw upon the same energy, for I did not write as much during term time. But teaching a subject helps you to continue learning it, and you learn in various ways from students. For instance, I think the critiquing of student poetry in seminars no doubt sharpened my ability to revise my own work.

One thing I learned while teaching in our graduate program in an urban university is how much talent there is out there, and how many people with talent fail to fully develop it—often for understandable reasons. This has always seemed to me to hint at the reality of an afterlife—there is so much more to people than can be fully discovered and developed in one lifetime.

Peter Menkin: I think people believe the poet is like the philosopher, like the teacher, like the musician—also the painter. In essence, the poet is a writer. Will you tell us if you agree with these statements and talk a little about your own work, especially that of the religious and faith kind. Does it either increase for you and even others food for thought about the Almighty and his Son Jesus Christ? Do you think that there is a sense of the grandeur of life and that of the Almighty? If so, how and even why? I know these are pointed questions, especially regarding religion and God, but my work as a Religion Writer sometimes asks I talk about such things with people. I am hoping you will take some time and talk to us about such things.

Robert Siegel: Yes, there is a connection between the poet, the musician, and the philosopher. Also the painter. I particularly identify with the painter in the use of imagery. We have several artists in the family, including my wife, a truly gifted photographer. Walter Pater said poetry aspires to the condition of music, and music is certainly of the essence too. Pound said that in addition to visual imagery and music, poetry had to have substantive meaning (I think the exotic term he used for this was logopoeia) which certainly connects it to philosophy.

For me that meaning is ultimately spiritual. Charles Williams said somewhere there are four sources of natural revelation: Love, Art, Nature, and the City. I’ve never related well to cities but the other three have been the source of poetry for me and means of apprehending and expressing my spiritual convictions, however indirectly.

In college I was fortunate in my English major to take courses in the major poets, Chaucer , Spenser, Wordsworth, Blake, Keats, Coleridge, and Shelley and Hopkins, and Eliot. to mention some of my favorites. They presented love, poetry and nature to me as sources of the divine. I will talk more about romantic love later. But I’ll quote here two lines from Chaucer’s “Knight’s Tale” that struck me my freshman year in college:

What is this world, what asketh man to have,

Now in his love’s armes, now in his colde grave.

As for nature, they –even T.S. Eliot—found “splendor in the grass and glory in the flower,” as Wordsworth put it, and shared in various ways a neo-platonic view of the world where everything is capable of revealing the divine , no matter how lowly it is on the great chain of being. Hopkinscalled this inscape, and he found it in everything from an eyelash to a wave of the sea. Poetry then became for me a possible sacramental, a way of final participation in Owen Barfield’s sense, of “finding the presence of God in everything,”or in Browning’s “God is seen God, / In the star in the stone in the flesh in the soul and the clod.”

The experience of a calling I referred to earlier helped me to understand this. And before that, a conversion experience I had in college where God revealed His reality to me . Immediately afterwards I transferred toWheatonCollege a strong, non-denominational Christian institution , where I knew my faith could be nurtured and I might grow in Christ. There I encountered C.S. Lewis’s works and was confirmed in the Anglican Church. In the last decade I have started regular centering prayer, according to the method taught by Father Thomas Keating, a Trappist monk, and find this contemplative method has certain qualities suggestive of the act of writing.

In turn the act of writing poetry becomes for me a kind of sacramental experience. Bruno Barnhart, a Camaldolese hermit, says that the “unitive” aesthetic experience offered by literature and art—when we feel one with what we are reading, looking at, or hearing– is a step toward experiencing union with God and I would agree. Our best experiences with literature and the arts are contemplative, a union of ourselves with the beauty before us. Literature and the arts can help us to forget ourselves and experience a completeness, a wholeness, for a moment or an hour. We forget our incomplete, divided selves and for a time are made one with what we are contemplating. This unitive experience can lead us to see beyond the work of art itself to what may shine through it, the world of the spirit.

This unitive experience may often lead me to write a poem. As I’ve described it elsewhere: “Most of us [writers] share a desire to call up things into words. This is the alchemy that fascinates me. A sensation, impression, or image will step out from its surroundings and demand my total attention. the thing itself will appear to rise up as words and send me fumbling for my notebook or keyboard.. Here is the wonder of what Keats called ‘natural magic’ as the image reaches up toward the words, the words become the image, the thing itself. For one happy moment they are fused. Thing becomes word and word becomes thing. . . substance and meaning are fused. The terrible gap between experience and the articulation of experience is closed. The mind is one with what it perceives.”

In my animal poems, especially, I attempt to become one with the animal while remaining my human self, and thus, I hope to create a third thing or voice, which is something like a totemic presence. The act of becoming one with something as you contemplate it or write is what Keats named “negative capability.” Much of his poetry comes from this experience. He once commented that if “a sparrow comes before my window I take part in its existence and peck about the gravel.”

Here are several examples of what I do in the animal poems. In each case I’m quoting a short part of the poem (all from A Pentecost of Finches: New & Selected Poems. Copyright 2006, Robert Siegel. All rights reserved.):

from Deer Tick:

No larger than a period I scramble
among the sequoia of your armhairs
unable to decide in this vast wilderness
where to drill for the life-giving well,
the water of life, the warm blood.
For I am sick unto death: in my abdomen

the spirochete turns its deadly corkscrew
which I must shortly confess to the stream
pulsing from your dark red heart,
setting at liberty this ghostly germ
large in the deer’s glazed eye
and the mouse’s tremble. . . .

from Inchworm:

I am of two minds moving out of sync—
when one’s in action, the other’s resting,
and so I never come to a conclusion
though we move in the same direction
by separate steps, by little omegas,
yet neither end comes ever to an end. . . .

from Mussel:

I am
tasting the ocean
one mouthful at a time.
It is a slow rumination,
a reading of incunabula
in my cloister,
in this cell where light
fills me totally like an eye
then washes away. . . .

Slug

White, moist, orange,
I crawl up the cabbage leaf exposed,
too much like your most intimate parts
to be lovely, to be loved. I weep to the world,
my trail a long tear, defenseless
from its beaks and claws
except for my bitter aftertaste.
He who touches me shares my sorrow
and shudders to the innermost–my pale horns
reaching helpless into the future.
In plastic cups filled with beer
ringed like fortresses around your garden,
your lie of plenty,
we drown by the hundreds,
curled rigid in those amber depths,
so many parentheses surrounding nothing.
You do not understand nothing:
the nakedness to the sky,
the lack of one protective shelter,
the constant journey.
Millions of us wither in the margins
while food rots close by.
Nothing is a light that surrounds us
like the breath of God.

Interview: Peter Cole, Jewish poet/translator gives his stark answers to questions in this ongoing series

In another of the ongoing series with Anglican and Christian poets this religion writer chose to interview Jewish poet and translator Peter Cole. One of his agent suggested a Jewish poet, though Ofer Ziv of Blue Flower Arts knew the series was made up of Christians and Anglicans.

The mystic, poet, secular Jewish married man of letters who is a scholar is reticent to use the word “God” in an interview, and even reticent to admit to a belief in the Almighty. Yet this religious and spiritual scholar and poet has a recent book of translations of works from the Kabbalah in the book titled The Poetry of Kabbalah: Mystical Verse from the Jewish Tradition.

This ancient discipline of understanding the Almighty in the Jewish tradition is a mystical and mysterious exercise in religious practice that continues into our own day this 21st Century. If one asks, Where are we going, even in the Christian community, it does good to look towards the mystics be they Christian or Jew. This eminent and if not celebrated translator Peter Cole fits the bill of man who finds the kind of no God experience of mystery in the Kabbalah work. That is, if this Religion Writer may takes some liberties based on visiting the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco where a room of men and women heard him speak of Kabbalah, read from his new book, and talk of matters poetic and scholarly in the Jewish tradition. He was on tour in March, and as a guest in the house of the Jewish Community, that though not Temple, is certainly a specific place of community life and interest; Peter Cole makes a noteworthy presentation and appearance, even so far as to engage the audience with his translations and his own poetry. Here are two samples of his translation work from the new book of Kabbalah writings:

THE POETRY OF KABBALAH

The stakes couldn’t be higher: extraction of

light from the container of sound; ascent to the

Throne of God and direct vision of His Glory;

the eradication of coarseness and the forces of

darkness; a path to redemption, sometimes

through sin; the achievement of erotic union

on high — which is to say, the sacred marriage

of feminine and masculine aspects within the

Deity. “Great is the power of the poem recited

for the sake of heaven,” writes one late-

seventeenth-century North African poet. “It

unites all the [spiritual] qualities

like a sacrificial offering, aligns the [heavenly]

channels, and gives rise to effulgence in all

worlds — above and below.”

In this Kabbalistic context, poems not only depict a mystical process, they produce it . . . In other words, the hymns of the Jewish mystical tradition demonstrate how song — almost magically, and at times with actual magic — can conduct and preserve transformative knowledge, even for those who don’t quite know what they know. Moreover, they show how a vision of the manifold linkage of all things and all degrees of thought and feeling might be registered in the cadence and weave of a line of verse, a series of wedded sounds in the air.

T O R I S E O N H I G H

To rise on high

and descend below,

to ride the chariot’s wheels

and explore in the world,

to wander on earth

and contemplate splendor,

to bask in the blessing

of the Crown

and sound Glory,

to utter praises

and link letters, to utter names

and behold what is

above and below,

to know the meaning

of the living

and see the vision

of the dead.

To ford rivers of fire

and know lightning.

—from The Poetry of Kabbalah

Poem by the poet:

IMPROVISATION ON LINES BY ISAAC THE BLIND

Only by sucking, not by knowing,

can the subtle essence be conveyed—

sap of the word and the world’s flowing

that raises the scent of the almond blossoming,

and yellows the bulbul in the olive’s jade.

Only by sucking, not by knowing.

The grass and oxalis by the pines growing

are luminous in us—petal and blade—

as sap of the word and the world’s flowing;

a flicker rising from embers glowing;

light trapped in the tree’s sweet braid

of what it was sucking. Not by knowing

is the amber honey of persimmon drawn in.

An anemone piercing the clover persuades me—

sap of the word and the world is flowing.

across separation, through wisdom’s bestowing,

and in that persuasion choices are made:

But only by sucking, not by knowing

that sap of the word through the world is flowing.

—from Things on Which I’ve Stumbled

TO THE SOUL by Avraham Ibn Ezra, 1092

Sent down from a luminous fountain of life,

drawn from a sacred place, and pure,

created as one, though not with form,

and greater by far than honor or wisdom—

why were you ushered into the world

and then in the dark of the body imprisoned?

At first its sleep seems sweet to you,

but in the end it’s hard and bitter.

Put the pleasures of Time behind you,

unless in exile you’d always wander.

Consider your glory, for this is your Good,

to serve the living God in awe:

take counsel while living within this world—

and be bound in the one-to-come with the Lord.

—from The Dream of the Poem, trans. Peter Cole

Perhaps you has reader are not familiar with the name Peter Cole, or even Madonna, a Hollywood figure who studies Kabbalah as well. She is a part of the ever popular movement towards that mystery of ancient Judaism. But she is a singer, and like other Hollywood types we don’t take their study seriously, unless we are fans. Peter Cole is taken seriously in the Jewish community and among academics and religious types.

If you as reader have heard of this list of notable organizations, This religion writer thinks you will agree they are impressive. These are the titles and awards held and worn almost like an unseen necklace by poet/translator Peter Cole.

Winner of the 2010 TLS Risa Domb/Porjes Translation Prize, Jewish Book Council Winner of the 2007 R. R. Hawkins Award, Association of American Publishers Winner of the 2007 Award for Best Professional/Scholarly Book in Humanities, Association of American Publishers Winner of the 2007 Award for Best Professional/Scholarly Book in Literature, Language, and Linguistics, Association of American Publishers Winner of the 2007 National Jewish Book Award in Poetry Finalist for the 2007 National Jewish Book Award in Sephardic Culture Peter Cole is the recipient of a 2007 MacArthur Fellowship Peter Cole is a winner of a 2010 Academy Award in Literature from the American Academy of Arts and Letters.

They are ones Princeton University Press notes. Here is another “award.”

As one scholar and poet says of this seeker of God, this man involved with the ineffable, adding another acclamation to the poet’s list: “Peter Cole is a true maker. His extraordinary learning is deep and personal, and his poems, like his translations, are powered by a large spiritual quest to link and light the world with words. He stands with amazement before great mysteries.” —Edward Hirsch

In another of the ongoing series with Anglican and Christian poets this religion writer chose to interview Jewish poet and translator Peter Cole. One of his agent suggested a Jewish poet, though Ofer Ziv of Blue Flower Arts knew the series was made up of Christians and Anglicans.

The mystic, poet, secular Jewish married man of letters who is a scholar is reticent to use the word “God” in an interview, and even reticent to admit to a belief in the Almighty. Yet this religious and spiritual scholar and poet has a recent book of translations of works from the Kabbalah in the book titled The Poetry of Kabbalah: Mystical Verse from the Jewish Tradition.

This ancient discipline of understanding the Almighty in the Jewish tradition is a mystical and mysterious exercise in religious practice that continues into our own day this 21st Century. If one asks, Where are we going, even in the Christian community, it does good to look towards the mystics be they Christian or Jew. This eminent and if not celebrated translator Peter Cole fits the bill of man who finds the kind of no God experience of mystery in the Kabbalah work. That is, if this Religion Writer may takes some liberties based on visiting the Jewish Community Center of San Francisco where a room of men and women heard him speak of Kabbalah, read from his new book, and talk of matters poetic and scholarly in the Jewish tradition. He was on tour in March, and as a guest in the house of the Jewish Community, that though not Temple, is certainly a specific place of community life and interest; Peter Cole makes a noteworthy presentation and appearance, even so far as to engage the audience with his translations and his own poetry. Here are two samples of his translation work from the new book of Kabbalah writings:

THE POETRY OF KABBALAH

The stakes couldn’t be higher: extraction of

light from the container of sound; ascent to the

Throne of God and direct vision of His Glory;

the eradication of coarseness and the forces of

darkness; a path to redemption, sometimes

through sin; the achievement of erotic union

on high — which is to say, the sacred marriage

of feminine and masculine aspects within the

Deity. “Great is the power of the poem recited

for the sake of heaven,” writes one late-

seventeenth-century North African poet. “It

unites all the [spiritual] qualities

like a sacrificial offering, aligns the [heavenly]

channels, and gives rise to effulgence in all

worlds — above and below.”

In this Kabbalistic context, poems not only depict a mystical process, they produce it . . . In other words, the hymns of the Jewish mystical tradition demonstrate how song — almost magically, and at times with actual magic — can conduct and preserve transformative knowledge, even for those who don’t quite know what they know. Moreover, they show how a vision of the manifold linkage of all things and all degrees of thought and feeling might be registered in the cadence and weave of a line of verse, a series of wedded sounds in the air.

T O R I S E O N H I G H

To rise on high

and descend below,

to ride the chariot’s wheels

and explore in the world,

to wander on earth

and contemplate splendor,

to bask in the blessing

of the Crown

and sound Glory,

to utter praises

and link letters, to utter names

and behold what is

above and below,

to know the meaning

of the living

and see the vision

of the dead.

To ford rivers of fire

and know lightning.

—from The Poetry of Kabbalah

Poem by the poet:

IMPROVISATION ON LINES BY ISAAC THE BLIND

Only by sucking, not by knowing,

can the subtle essence be conveyed—

sap of the word and the world’s flowing

that raises the scent of the almond blossoming,

and yellows the bulbul in the olive’s jade.

Only by sucking, not by knowing.

The grass and oxalis by the pines growing

are luminous in us—petal and blade—

as sap of the word and the world’s flowing;

a flicker rising from embers glowing;

light trapped in the tree’s sweet braid

of what it was sucking. Not by knowing

is the amber honey of persimmon drawn in.

An anemone piercing the clover persuades me—

sap of the word and the world is flowing.

across separation, through wisdom’s bestowing,

and in that persuasion choices are made:

But only by sucking, not by knowing

that sap of the word through the world is flowing.

—from Things on Which I’ve Stumbled

TO THE SOUL by Avraham Ibn Ezra, 1092

Sent down from a luminous fountain of life,

drawn from a sacred place, and pure,

created as one, though not with form,

and greater by far than honor or wisdom—

why were you ushered into the world

and then in the dark of the body imprisoned?

At first its sleep seems sweet to you,

but in the end it’s hard and bitter.

Put the pleasures of Time behind you,

unless in exile you’d always wander.

Consider your glory, for this is your Good,

to serve the living God in awe:

take counsel while living within this world—

and be bound in the one-to-come with the Lord.

—from The Dream of the Poem, trans. Peter Cole

Interview: Getting to know Yale Institute of Sacred Music through Martin Jean, through David Stowe

In an effort to discover in what singular way this Religion Writer could uncover the work of Yale Institute of Sacred Music, to discover what the Institute does, and even take a look at how the Institute of Sacred Music explores Christianity, these two interviews were developed. The first is with Martin Jean, Director of the Institute. He speaks directly with the reader about the Institute. The second interview is with new Fellow of the Institute for Sacred Music, David Stowe. He exemplifies one aspect of exploring Christianity and looking at Sacred Music.

INTERVIEW WITH MARTIN JEAN

martin.jean@yale.edu

Martin Jean, Director, Yale Institute of Sacred Music1.1. Peter Menkin: For some time music in Church and Sacred Music in the Christian tradition has engaged me in somany ways. You are in the unique position, Doctor Martin Jean, of getting a special perspective as Director of Yale Institute of Sacred Music of music played in worship–and that same music played in the larger world. Talk to us of the Sacred Music program at Yale. In fact, an introduction to the Institute seems appropriate at this time as we enter into this interview.

We were founded here at Yale in 1973, a direct descendant of the Union School for Sacred Music at Union Theological Seminary. At that time the Irwin Sweeney Miller Foundation gave a grant to Yale to begin the Institute. Their faculty moved here from New York and started our Institute of Sacred Music.

We’ve very much carried forward the tradition of sacred music, and related arts. Our musicians go on to become pastors, church musicians, lay leaders—but they leave here with an understanding of the role in religious life [of music and their own role]. We’ve had Bruce Neswick who is now Professor of Organ at Indiana University and former choir director at St. John the Cathedral in New York. He is an improviser. [Among many others.]

Our students graduate and some will become Church musicians and some will become performers. We graduated a very fine performer who is going to sing at New York Philharmonic, and one who is a Soprano who will sing with St. Louis Bach Society. Those two singers I just mentioned are up and coming oratorio singers; when Dan is singing he is singing the evangelical role which is commonly heard on the concert stage – St. Matthew’s Passion.

I’m awfully proud of our faculty, and music especially our primary goal–to find a music teachers who will help you the most. We have a great

World class tenor Taylor
organ teacher, and music teacher. In the liturgical tradition are some of the great scholars in the world: Thomas Murray is my senior colleague in organ, and he is the college organist. He is very well known. Our Tenor is named James R. Taylor; he is not the pop singer. He’s a world class tenor. You can say that with impunity.

1.2. Peter Menkin: Being chosen as a Fellow at Yale Institute of Sacred Music is a prize, and a competition. You were among those instrumental in making that choice for this year’s Fellows. I note you are also a Judge for music prizes elsewhere: In July, Martin Jean served on the jury for the 2011 Competitions of the St. Albans International Organ Festival. The annual 10-day festival draws young organists from around the world who compete in various categories. (August 2011). Is there a difference in choosing a Prize Winner and making decisions on who may be a Fellow in a given year? Tell us a little of the Institute’s need for Fellows, and how they contribute to the Yale Institute of Sacred Music of which you are Director?

I’m involved with the selections, but I sit in more ex officio in the process and let the rest of the selection committee make the decision. We are looking for someone more in line with our mission; if someone is writing on sacred music, we want them to write about not only the music but the religious context. It’s that we are looking at the current work they are doing, but we are really testing their track record. If someone is writing on hymns used in worship, tell us something about that. I was just reviewing David Stowe, and what might helpful is the project he is making on Psalm 137.

[First two paragraphs from David Stowe’s proposal. He is a Fellow, 2013, Institute of Sacred Music. David W. Stowe has written widely on music and religion in American culture, including No Sympathy for the Devil: Christian Pop Music and the Transformation of American Evangelicalism (2011); How Sweet the Sound: Music in the Spiritual Lives of Americans (2004), which won a Deems Taylor award from ASCAP; and Swing Changes: Big Band Jazz in New Deal America (1994), which was published in Japanese in 1999. He is professor of English and Religious Studies at Michigan State University, where he served as director of the Program in American Studies. Stowe taught for three years at the Graduate School of American Studies at Doshisha University in Kyoto, where he also served as associate dean. He is a founding member of the Institute for the Study of Christianity and Culture, a research institute based in Lansing, Michigan. At Yale, Stowe will research and complete the manuscript for his next book entitled Babylon Revisited: How Psalm 137 Helped Americans Make a Nation, charting the subtle changes in emphasis and interpretation of a thirteen-line Hebrew poem to help make new sense of religious, musical, and political change in North America.

From the Proposal to Yale Institute for Sacred Music as Fellow:

I hope to spend my fellowship year at the Institute of Sacred Music researching and completing a book manuscript, Babylon Revisited: How Psalm 137 Helped Americans Make a Nation. My premise is that charting the subtle changes in emphasis and interpretation of a thirteen-line Hebrew poem helps make new sense of religious, musical, and political change in North America. Babylon Revisited will build on my expertise in U.S. cultural history, religious studies, and ethnomusicology, and allow me to expand a forthcoming article into a book.

No song text has exerted a more sustained pull on the political imagination

of Americans than Psalm 137. The text figured in the worship of the English

Puritans who settled New England, appearing in the first English-language book published in America. It inspired the unique genius of composer William Billings and the oratory of Frederick Douglass. More than a century later it reappeared in a completely new musical guise, reggae. Since then, Psalm 137 has been covered numerous times in a wide variety musical styles: gospel, disco, country rock, alternative, hip-hop.]

This program we began three years ago and we saw it as a way to reach out beyond our own disciplinary borders. There is also an opportunity to create a community of scholars around sacred music and the arts. They will be part of a weekly program of sharing works, critiquing each other’s works, teaching students and being a voice at the table. A way to deepen and expand our own commitment to these areas of inquiry.

The class we just announced is the third set of scholars and we think it’s going terrifically. We’re learning of their work by their application and the quality of their work contributes enormously to bring new ideas to the table.

I think what our students are getting from it is respect for the enormous diversity of sacred music in the world. We are learning about more cultures and different community groups of people. By bringing people here, students are becoming more diversely grounded. That is a need of churches today. They don’t look like they did in the fifties. They are reaching out beyond race divides, class divides, gender divides.

1.3. Peter Menkin: By the research done on the Institute of Sacred Music’s website it is apparent you are active in the Lutheran Church. In fact, you serve on the Lutheran Music Program Board, who says of you: martin.jean@yale.edu Dr. Jean is Professor of Organ at the Yale School of Music and Director of the Yale Institute of Sacred Music. Prior to assuming his position at Yale, he served as Associate Professor of Music and University Organist at Valparaiso University in Indiana and as Associate Professor of Music at Concordia College in Ann Arbor, Michigan. He holds the Doctor of Musical Arts degree from the University of Michigan and has commercial recordings on the Raven and Gothic labels. Congregation: Bethesda Lutheran Church, New Haven, CT Why LSM? LSM has been a life-changing experience for thousands of young people. They learn to perform at the highest level with peers that quickly become their friends, and they have the opportunity to offer these gifts in worship every day. Lutheran Music Program transforms lives and connects people through faith and music. The three values which we embrace are musical excellence, Lutheran faith and a nurturing community. Our vision is to see churches and communities renewed through music for the sake of the world. Tell us how sacred music brings faith, and nurtures the community as it connects with people’s lives in the world. Is this the whole reason to be of the Institute of Sacred Music, too?

The purpose of the institute is to train not only scholars, but people who will work with people’s lives. Worship that they lead and create has music as an important component. I’m always reminded of what people in pastoral care tell me. Awful as people who are in their death beds may be, the things that mean the most to them are the hymns that they learned–grew up learning. As they fade in memory, it is the hymns they learned they recall. I suppose the ways we pray, the works of we engage in in worship, whether musical or textual, they play a role in creating community identity. Repeated patterns of worship give community life and shape and worship. They give people an identity because of these patterns of worship. People who studied 50 years ago thought of what their creeds were, now it is how do they pray, what does the room look like….

Interview: Religious Educator Orthodox Rabbi Yaakov Menken on www.Torah.org, an internet school

This is the second interview in three that constitute the final article-interview on Religious Education. The unique aspect of this interview has to do with the success of internet education and its use in the teaching of Torah and Jewish learning purposes, as well, of Orthodox Jewish adult education. In this interview with Religion Writer Peter Menkin, Director of www.torah.org spoke with the writer over a period of a few months, from December, 2011, through the 20th of March, 2012. Rabbi Yaakov Menken (no relation to the Religion Writer), speaks with an authority born of education, training, and experience. He shows a love of learning, and like the other three Rabbis who are part of this interview series of three about the internet learning site, with its 78,000 subscribers, Rabbi Yaakov has a warmth for the reality of the work and their experience in reaching out to both Jews and non-Jews in many parts of the world–in fact, worldwide as well as the United States. The phone conversations held from Peter Menkin’s home office in Mill Valley, California to Rabbi Yaakov’s office at www. Torah.org and his own home in Baltimore, went well.

1. Peter Menkin: There is little doubt in my mind that your work as Director, www.Torah.org is an internet success with 78,000 subscribers. In a conversation by phone, you talked some about advantages and such of internet learning—calling Torah.org a place for ongoing education (lifelong learning). To paraphrase your remark regarding continuing education–as this writer knows it as once known in California, USA– and your school purpose, continuing education is…much closer to our model, not because (the student is) going to get a credit. Lifelong education known to us as… religious study…a more fundamental obligation. It is one of the things we are expected to do. Tell us about this lifelong, fundamental obligation. Give us some about the, “Why,” and “What for…”

In our view, of course, the Torah as the word of God was not only given to us in a written law, but given to us as an Oral Law—which was only written down so that it wasn’t forgotten. For us every piece of that Law is God’s Commandment. “And you will teach it to your children, and you will speak of it when you are sitting in your house, and when you are walking on the way, and when you lie down and when you arise.” [Deuteronomy 6:7].

In any case, it is one of our most fundamental teachings that we should be involved in learning and studying God’s law—it’s God’s teaching, the Torah. Whether its ethics, philosophy, we are fulfilling God’s Commandment to study, which helps us to perform all the other Commandments. It’s not merely intellectual study. You learn how to speak properly, and then you have a conversation. (We have a class in the ethics of speech. It is one of our oldest classes, and the archive is still active on our website.)

When we are talking about philosophy and ethics and how a person should think about things, it is not simply cut and dry. You have to have the spirit along with it. There are certain things you can get away with in rote mechanics, but ethics you cannot. It is not to say you are supposed to—you don’t get up and check a box. When it comes to something like interpersonal conduct, if you don’t understand the principals you can’t understand what you are doing.

Even in a more positive direction, this–when you are studying the word of God you are becoming a more Godly person. You are coming to God and making the world a better place. It’s very small. You start much closer to home. When you learn to generally care about other people, and make others happier…one person at a time…that generosity is reflected in a lot of ways: in spirit, in generous giving, generosity of volunteerism. Generosity of time is also generosity.

It’s a rationale for our existence, to become a more Godly people and bring the world along with us. That is our highest expression in the world.

A large part of our audience is composed of people who have–even people who have been born into Jewish families—who have never been exposed to this. They have never experienced the beauty of what Jewish learning really is. Part of our work is to have people have an experience of Jewish learning and grow from there.

When it comes to Jewish learning, the objective is not to be the greatest scholar on the planet. There is only one person who will be the greatest scholar on the planet. It is to be the greatest scholar you can be.

2. Peter Menkin: This writer notes there are opportunities the technical side of internet systems offers the student that your school offers: http://torahmedia.com/ . The site says,

TorahMedia has thousands of FREE Jewish mp3 audio downloads and a lending library of world class Jewish speakers. Find your favorite speakers, discover new ones and search for your topic on the world’s most comprehensive Torah audio lending library available online.

Featuring such speakers as Rabbi Yissocher Frand, Rabbi Jonathan Rietti, Rabbi Paysach Krohn, Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis, Rabbi Dr. Akiva Tatz, Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twerski … and many more!

You told me in a phone conversation, We have a very substantial mp3 library of our own. It is one of the most diverse sources on the internet. There are six pages of teachers who are involved with us. Torahmedia.com (is) where one can find collateral material…Torah audio. (Availability allows) use mp3 players and the iPod will play it, podcast compatible. Torahmedia has podcasts available. I call this cutting edge, and even, “cool.” I am sure young people say it is, “cool.”

How were you able to create all these integrated sites, technically, and who worked on the project that as www.torah.org began in 2005? Talk to our readers about your own background, both as Rabbi and as computer programmer? Do you have a degree in computer programming?

Rabbi Yaakov: Project Genesis has been around since 1993, and the domain name Torah.org came two years later. I do have a background in computer science. I went to Princeton, and one of my classmates was Jeff Bezos of Amazon.com. He was Princeton computer science student and had an idea for an online bookstore. Part way through Princeton, I made the decision to be observant of traditional Judaism and went to study that ofter college. After studying for several years, I wanted to do something to encourage Jewish learning on college campuses. The truth is I thought we were going to do live events on campus. I thought we would do things outside of Hillel to capturing students’ attention. But then the Internet became the best way to reach large numbers of people. It was a confluence of circumstances, and people that encouraged me to use the Internet for Jewish learning, and lo and behold it took off.

Because my degree was in computers, I was the first programmer for our organization. We ran web servers, mailing list servers. I am less and less involved with that today. We have a team of people who work with us today, and the truth is today there is not as much programming.

There is a big project afoot to unify our websites. When we began in 1995, we did this all by hand, there was no software platform to work from. There was not as much user access. You couldn’t rely on the average user to have a broadband Internet connection. Today all that has changed. Even news sites feature video on the home page. We do not divide as text from audio from video as we did ten years ago. We have to link to audio and video as we do with other web topics [today]. If there is web audio content about a holiday coming up, doesn’t it make sense to link to that content?

We regard it as a tremendous opportunity. Anything that comes along in this way can be used to expand educational offerings. And here we’re talking about a type of immediate outreach to people around the world that was never offered before. Obviously there are upsides and downsides to every technical advance. Here we are leveraging it to its best advantage.

Interview: Tania Runyan, 39-year-old American poet from Illinois, another in the series on Anglican and Christian poets

This interview with Illinois Poet Tania Runyan is the result of sending an inquiry to Wordfarm Press in Washington State asking to see some works in published form of Anglican and Christian poets who they thought make good subjects for this series. Sally Craft, an editor at the press, sent a number of books to review. Though all were worthwhile and certainly enjoyable to read, it was Tania Runyan who stood out in this Religion Writer’s mind. Sally wrote in one email:

You might want to consider Luci Shaw, Jeanne Murray Walker, Paul J. Willis, Brian Dietrich, Tania Runyan and James Zoller–all poets that WordFarm has published or will be publishing soon. I’d be happy to send you samples of their books. I’d love to see your interview with John Leax, if it turns into a published piece. Poets interested in the Wordfarm list can find the publishing house here and write Sally here. I had written Sally I was interested in the work of Paul J. Willis and John Leax, bot of whom are Christian poets being considered for this same series of Anglican and Christian poets.

For those who wish to take a look at who Tania Runyan may be, go to her website here. Tania’s also has a Facebook page. That will give you a start prior to the interview itself.

Tania Runyan poet with husband on a hike (baby, too). The two have three children together.

INTERVIEW WITH TANIA RUNYAN, AMERICAN POET

1.1. In a phone interview from my home office north of San Francisco to your home in Lindenhurst, Illinois in January 2012, you said about your reflection on your poetry and its Biblical background that you are not academically trained in a seminary for Bible study, “…Just from my own personal walk of faith. Reading the Bible. I’ve been going to Bible study for years. These are my own personal grapplings with the scripture passage.” Tell us something of where you’ve been going for Bible study, if there are any particular poems that you consider truly representative of your own grapplings with scripture, and if there is a particular book of the Bible that you find interesting for your work, which one is it?

I first started attending Bible studies in college and have attended and led them through church off and on through adulthood. One of my Bible study teachers even became my husband! For an example of a poem in which I grapple with scripture, I sent you “Man is Without Excuse,” based on Romans 1:20:

Man is Without Excuse

Perhaps you could say that in Rome, Paul,

where the olive trees of the Seven Hills

strung their pearls of rain against the sky.

And yes, as I hike Glacier Park

with a well-stocked pack, I can welcome

God’s ambassadors of fireweed and paintbrush,

the psalmic rhythm of lake hitting shore.

But as the refugee trudges

from Mogadishu to Dabaab, is she to catch

a glimpse of antelope bone in the thicket

and intuit the sufferings of the Son of Man?

She wears her own nails and crown.

An Eden of lizards surges at her heels,

but she wonders at nothing

but the sore-studded daughter she left to die

on the road, and now, the baby

strapped to her back: six pounds

at one year old. He no longer cries

but flutters small breaths on her neck

like the golden wings of moths

she counts with worshipful attention.

With this poem I’m exploring my love-hate relationship with that verse. [I did it as] someone who loves nature and loves hiking, loves creation. But I think it’s hard for someone like a refugee in Somalia. If you’re fleeing for your life in a horrifying place, how do you find Jesus in creation? Writing about these passages helps me approach God honestly. Even if I don’t find an answer, I feel that dealing with these passages increases my faith just the same. I believe being honest with God increases your faith, even if honesty leaves you with struggles and questions unanswered.
1.2. k comes to mind when I think of your own passions and sense of the feminine in the Bible: Please tell us about some of the women you’ve chosen to write about in your book A Thousand Vessels available from WordFarm in Washington State, USA.

The ten women I explore in the book are Eve, Sarah, Dinah, Ruth, Esther, Mary the mother of Jesus, the woman at the well, Martha, Jairus’ daughter, and Mary Magdelene. I explore the experiences of marriage, love and birth, especially with women like Ruth and Mary. Faith and sacrifice with Sarah. Death and rebirth with Jairus’ daughter. The changing power of Christ with the woman at the well.

I have two poems from the Woman at the Well section that speak to that. In “Before the Well,” the woman is defined by degrading relationships with men. She struggles to find an identity outside of a man.

Before the Well

This man lying next to me is all

the men before. Hair and humid breath

traveling my body, perspiration dripping

on my breasts. He believes that I love

him. I wish I could awaken him

with whispers of wine and honey, fill the bed

with lilies and myrrh. I wish I could trace his lips

and feel something quiver in my blood.

Instead, I walk into the dark alone.

I close my eyes and imagine myself

beneath a canopy of apple trees, where nothing

touches me but the wind sweeping in

from the distant hills. Always clean and sweet.

Invisible and glimmering out of nowhere.

In “After the Well,” I explore how her sensuality and womanhood have now been renewed as beauty and freedom in Christ. So before the well, her identity and her body served no purpose but to fulfill the needs of the many men in her life. Here, the men have been awestruck by the identity and power of this woman and her newfound power in Christ:

After the Well

​

When she returned,

the men of the village

could no longer allow

their eyes to creep

into the hot, dark secrets

of her body.

She threw her shoulders back.

Her breasts and hips

took on the solid power

of granite carved

from the mountainsides.

And her hair was no longer

just a tangle of steamy pleasure

but spread across her back

like a stand of cedar trees.

The men couldn’t speak.

They watched her gather

the widows and prostitutes

and stretch her arm

toward Jacob’s well.

The women followed her,

slowly lifting the veils

from their faces

as her faded blue dress

swept before them

like the holy sky.

Martha in particular speaks to me because of my task-oriented personality, especially during this period of my life with younger children. On many levels, I have to be organized and on task. But I must also be able to sit at the feet of Christ. So it is a challenge for me.

1.3. At one point in our telephone conversation we spoke of female thought and passion in relation to the faith poem, and you said of your work regarding sensuous interpretation, “I think it’s beautiful. [I know you are referring to the man-woman relationship in passion, here.] And I think we’ve always conceived this notion of the Bible as a sanitized work, but it is actually quite sensual. I think part of the hard balance in trying to reach an audience with A Thousand Vessels is that people who aren’t familiar with the Christian faith, or who have a preconceived notion of the Bible, will balk at the sex and violence there. I am trying to show how the Bible portrays the whole spectrum of human experience.” As I recall, your poem about Adam is for my reading a sensuous work. This writer doesn’t want to paint you as a poet interested in the erotic, solely, but in this work you certainly capture something of the male-female relationship. “Really, I think this poem is about blame and regret. He is out working the earth now because he is cursed with the earth. He is mad at her because she started the whole ball rolling, and at the end of the poem he is wondering if he made a mistake, wishing that there was a promising relationship and life in the garden. They now have tension that they have to work through.” My question is this: Let us explore your intention of exploring emotions of blame and regret in a relationship. Please talk about that some.

In the poem [Eve] sees his gorgeous body working the ground, becoming the ground, as if retreating back to his origins. His sexuality is now completely disengaged from her. Meanwhile, he is looking beyond her for an imaginary woman who could bring that paradise back. But the reality is that they both need to live with the consequences of their actions, and nothing is going to bring them back to the garden.

He can look for this imaginary woman, but he is not going anywhere unless he moves forward and makes the best of his life. My friends and I are entering into the middle of life, and some of us are looking at regrets. How many kids we’ve had, and how many kids we’ve not had. (Laughs). …Reaching 40 and thinking about the choices in your life, it can be hard work to live with consequences, but it is also very freeing. To make that decision to face your life and make it as generous and loving and redemptive as possible—regardless of your past.

Adam and Eve faced regret, but they moved on, and that is the most important thing of all, moving on.

1.4. In following the number of readings you’ve done recently, this writer asks that you comment on your remark, “One thing that makes me different from most other poets is that I do not have a career in academia. I love my life and how I’m living it, but sometimes I do feel a little alienated from the poetry world.” Will you expand on this theme of the poet who is not on a staff as a teacher in academy and how you as a poet with an MFA in poetry, trained in academia, put together a writing life outside of academia? How does a poet learn to be a poet if not through ongoing academia?

Even since I made that remark during our first conversation, my life has changed. I’ve made so many more connections to poets and editors. I don’t feel so isolated anymore. One reason is I’ve been spending so much time with social media. Yes, Facebook and Twitter can take up a lot of time, but the community of writers I’ve found there can be invigorating and encouraging. As for surviving, I’ve found so many ways to stay employed with my impractical writing degrees. (Laughs) I taught high school, and when I began having kids, I started tutoring students privately. I’ve been doing that for nine years, and I really love it. I tutor students in reading, writing, and the SAT and ACT (both college admission testing). I advise them on their college application essays.

Once my youngest is in school, I’m planning on doing more freelancing. There are plenty of things I’ve put together outside of academia. I will admit, sometimes I get intimidated when I’m with a crowd of scholars. But my academic friends are very generous with their time and support.

As for learning to be a poet, it requires a lot of reading and writing, just doing the work. When I talk to young poets, I say at this point in life, it’s all about experimenting and having fun with language. Really, all poets at all stages should never lose that excitement and fervor for words. But young poets should not worry about when or where they are going to be published. They must love words, play with words…and I think as a young writer, that is what I did. I just had a lot of fun. I’m still a young writer. A young writer could be 60 years old. Really, we should never stop growing. I hope I will continue to improve and evolve.

At the recent Odyssey Arts Festival at Stevenson High School, in Lincolnshire, Ilinois, I had students write about the Georgia O’Keeffe painting, “Red, Yellow, and Black Streak.” I was trying to show them that anyone can sit down with a work of art for inspiration, explore it with their senses, and produce some fresh and beautiful writing. The poems were written in groups. The point wasn’t to come up with a cohesive masterpiece, but to explore the possibilities of language.

Here are a few examples of lines and images students created. They were hungry, I suppose, and imagined a lot of food in the O’Keeffe!

A swath of caramel heat consumes the air.

The wind carried a scent of cinnamon.

Swirling masses of passionate nutmeg.

Rolling clouds of lemonade.

The wind dragged the waves across the land.

Spaghetti bombs permeate the horizon.

Seagulls fly into the papaya sunset.

Interview: American Anglican poet Luci Shaw at 83–with Addendum of her poems

Here is the interview done with American poet Luci Shaw, of Washington State in the Northwest. This is another in a series of interviews with Anglican and American poets. (Luci Shaw is an Anglican—attends Episcopal Church in her Washington State.)

She decided to respond to questions by writing answers, and this interview reflects her request so that she could email her answers. She did so and the answers were received October 1, 2011. At 83 years old, with 30 books to her credit, she’s finished another work that she hopes to see published about what it means to get to be older in years. This writer asked her a little about the subject of her book proposal, and herewith the interview.

1. In your poem, “Mary Considers Her Situation,” there is a simplicity and at the same time reality to your statement about her as Mother of God. One question that so many poets are asked is what is their muse that brings them to write about a certain subject? That is my first question, but more, what is there about Mary as a figure in the story that captures the eye of your imagination? Will you share something of this vision and faith with us?

I find in Mary, the mother of Jesus, and her willing involvement in the drama of Incarnation, an almost infinite world of possibility for reflection and poetry. My collection, Accompanied by Angels, includes many poems about this ordinary, extraordinary young woman. She can be viewed from so many different angles.

I have always seen her as a model, to both women and men, of active participation in the work of God no matter how tricky or risky it appears to be. She said Yes to being pregnant with God by the Holy Ghost, well knowing what that might do to her reputation as an unwed mother. She considered the call of God on her to be paramount.

She is also an example to all of us who wish to know new birth and growth in our own lives. In Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapter 8, particularly in Eugene Peterson’s translation, I read:

“All around us we observe a pregnant creation. The difficult times of pain throughout the world are simply birth pangs. But it’s not only around us. It’s within us. The Spirit of God is arousing us within. We are also feeling

the birth pangs. These sterile and barren bodies of ours are yearning for full deliverance. That is why waiting does not diminish us, any more than waiting diminishes a pregnant mother. We are enlarged in the waiting.”

So, Mary is our example of fruitfulness. She also shows us what active submission of the finite to the Infinite looks like in an ordinary human being. She herself incarnates that obedience in a way the whole of Christendom remembers, if we reference all the religious art that features her through history.

In my poem, “Mary Considers Her Situation” (which will be featured in The Christian Century during Advent, 2011) I tried to be Mary, to get into her experience first-hand, to feel what this shocking event would evoke for her emotionally. I used the simple language of an untrained teenage girl. And her first thought, “What will I say to my mother?” echoes what an adolescent today would ask herself before the amazement of the moment overwhelms her. And then, the reality. She will be “split” both physically, in birth, and split from the rest of humanity by her unique role.

2. When I get in a conversation about getting older, and I am coming to my 65th birthday in October 2011, I try to admit to them and myself that this is a new stage in my life. But most people with whom I speak talk about aging and getting older as something to avoid, and their response is always, You are not so old. If I speak of someone in their 80s, this same kind of person says, They are not so old. I wonder what they will say if asked about someone in their 90s. My question for you because your latest book proposal is on getting into the later years of life, and you yourself are 83, what are a few of your thoughts and even poetic imaginings about aging? Is it such a fearful thing that so many of us must deny that getting old is even old at all?

Getting older is so universal, so inevitable, so impossible to avoid unless you die young, that it is surprising to me that so many are in denial about it. The common view of aging is that it is a state of weakness, pain, passivity and immobility in which meaningful life has ceased to exist. The book I have just written is a demonstration that the opposite is possible. That spiritual and emotional growth and insight can happen. That the accumulated wisdom of a life-time becomes available for younger generations as the “senior citizen” continues to engage in the community.

Undoubtedly getting older has its downsides. Energy declines, bodily infirmities appear and multiply, memory may weaken, but the essential spirit of creativity and joy can still survive and flourish. My strategy is to stay aware of the wider world through reading, films, music, and the company of kindred spirits of any age. Most of my closest friends are decades younger than I am, but our age is not the focus of conversation, or our common ground, and even the issues on which we differ make for lively intercourse. Disagreements can be enlightening and widen the view!